Talk:2008 - (09/03/2008) September Version Update Preview: Part Two
Easier XP " Previously, enemies classified as "easy prey" or "a decent challenge" would provide a relatively paltry amount of experience points, leaving career-minded adventurers understandably dismayed. No more, however! Vanquishing these monsters will now lead to substantially larger helpings of EXP, to better reward players for braving the challenges these still-formidable foes present." Great news for a new player like myself, although I will be expecting the usual complaints from 75's who got their level the hard way and SE making the game too easy. I play the game for fun and to relax so will I now get comparable XP from duoing and killing DC by the bucket load or get more XP from chaining EM's? --Granty 11:30, 3 September 2008 (UTC) : Definitely looks that way, I'm really excited too, I don't level in 6-man parties, I play with two of my friends and we have levelled all the way to 58 so far, can't wait to see this added. I know it sucks for the people who worked hard for their 75 jobs with difficult exp gain and so on, but at least they should be proud they did it then, rather than complaining about how easy it is for players now. --Vasante 13:19, 3 September 2008 (UTC) I got my character to 75 the hard way, and most of my jobs are out of that soloing range, but I'm here to praise what SE is doing. The xp decay was a bit steep, and I am glad that they are going to smooth it out a bit with this. People who cannot dedicate 2-3 hours of time for a party should not be punished with poor xp. *raises his glass to SE for making this a really good update*--Alamaxia 11:42, 3 September 2008 (UTC) : Ditto. - Hiachi 12:34, 3 September 2008 (UTC) They are making the game more casual every update, I love, love, love it. Enedin 12:47, 3 September 2008 (UTC) I'm one of those people with jobs at 75 that aren't happy with this and the direction SE is going. This isn't a casual game. This is a game for the hardcore people to go to to escape games where you can level easily. What's next? Exp for "discovering" a zone on a job? SE needs to remember that their core players are hardcore players. If they alienate them, they're gonna realize the new players are the ones who won't stick with the game and then they're left with no players. --Shazam 16:20, 3 September 2008 (UTC) :I'm a lv 60 DRK and a casual player. If I want a hard core gaming experience, Final Fantasy 11 is the LAST game I pick (Shin Megami Tensei : Nocturne would be the first). Sure I'm not LV 75 doing sky and spending 12 hours killing near impossible giants for fancy weapons, but Final Fantasy 11 is as hard a game as you make it. Some people race to 75, others piddle around with sidequests, others gets immersed in crafts. This game is whatever you want it to be, and many of these new concepts are to not only appeal to hard core gamers, but to welcome players interested in an atmosphere filled with more than elitists and people who take an artificial world seriously. People who want a challenge, still have plenty of options and rewards to reap... people who want to play and have fun, now have something more to. Any innovation that brings players to the same level and makes it easier for a lv 20 newbie and a lv 75 badass to do something together they can both enjoy is a gem in my book.--DarkTrance 14:39, 5 September 2008 (UTC) Yea there going to spend there free time in the game and just leave when its done. Let hope by next year SE sees there error and removes this. Plus Hardcore Player that has those honorable Maat Cap, those well be useles. -- 16:35, 3 September 2008 (UTC) FFXI transform more and more into games like WoW. No thanks !! A few more Updates like this and u can lvl all 20 Jobs to 75 in 2 or 3 month and you can get every high lvl armor (like drops from gods or relic weapons) 2 month later. All long-time-player who invested alot of time into FFXI are really happy about this new SE direction. /sigh -- Ahtos 18:48, 3 September 2008 (UTC) : Dude its impossible for FFXI to turn into WoW. 1. SE knows how to model characters and make things look nice. 2. FFXI has one of the most complex Worlds of all the MMOs out there. I mean how many MMO's do you know where the Time of Day, Day of the Week, The Weather, the Moon Phase, The ammount of Elemental Balance on your character, Are all taken into calculation for EACH swing you do towards a monster, or for each cast of a spell? 3. SE has yet to release a content update that Completely ruined the games economy from the ground up. Burning Crusade negated about a Years worth of farming for EVERY level 60 player that had even a few good Epics. Because as soon as they stepped foot into the BC areas they were given green uncommon items that mopped the floor with everyones Purple Epics. It would be the same as if SE released a new line of Weapons that you could just pick up off of any Easy Prey monster and had the same effects as a fully unlocked Relic. That would fuck up the game, but SE isn't going to do it. A little bit of a XP boost is not going to ruin the game either. As for the argumetn that adding more XP is going to make the game easier. DUDE. If you sit down and calculate EVERYTHING you can do in FFXI, LEVELING is less then 10% of the game. You have the Story lines, Quests, Missions, Items, Hobbies, Crafting, Events, Community, Friends, Adventure! Those things take up 90% of the game. And SE has done an awesome job with them all. A bonus to XP is NOTHING in the grand scheme of things. --Nuala Phoenix Oh, yes; sea, einherjar, dynamis, sky gods, ---NMs (fill in with whichever), Nyzul, all of that is going to be made -so- much more casual with this... <.< The "core" players are the Japanese. You know, the people with 75 and max merits in all jobs already? What do they care about boosted exp? And since when was a +7 to all stats going to be useless? It just won't be as rare as before, but it's not exactly rare anymore as it is on Unicorn. This makes soloing a bit more profitable, especially for those jobs that aren't especially good at it (unlike, say, rdm or bst). I'm a little worried that it might make soloing a little -too- profitable, but I doubt that it will change a dramatic amount of behavior with the rampant amount of soloing already going on. My guess is that they're really trying to open this game up to the small-party static (three-man groups) when you also look at Campaign Ops' requirements. -- Tristan Kain 17:03, 3 September 2008 (UTC) Okay... really guys? Everyone's going to have Maat's Cap? Come on. It takes 800 thousand exp to get a job from 1 to 75. If you did that solely off EP's at the lowest end of their range, right now, we're looking at about 53,500 mobs. Obviously you're not only going to get 15 EXP off every mob 1-75, but we're still talking about a ridiculous amount of mobs, and that's assuming you never die once on a job. Multiply that by more than just one job, and that reaaaaally quickly skyrockets. Let's multiply it by 20, say you made a new character. That's over a 1,050,000 exp. Okay, let's say you average out to killing 1 EP/DC per minute or so over the life of your character. That's nearly 18,000 hours. 741 days. Of constant playtime. Assuming you NEVER DIE ONCE on any of those jobs. Even if you count best case of the currently 30-something EXP per EP, you're still looking at nearly a year of constant playtime to 75 EVERY JOB OFF EPs alone! That's not even counting the time taken out for rank ups, unlocking jobs, farming to have equipment to level said jobs, and so on. I really seriously doubt they make EP/DC give as much as an EM does, right now. Even if they did? That's 100+ days of CONSTANT PLAYTIME, alone. Even if you only got the Maat's cap jobs to 66, all of them off EM experience alone, we're STILL looking at 54+ days of constant playtime for all of them! That's with no sleeping, eating, dying (in or out of game), or even ever stopping killing mobs to do limit break quests or farm your testimonies TO fight Maat! This is not WoW. Adding a minor EXP bonus isn't going to result in any more millions of 66s, 75s, or Maat's Caps running around than the level curve drop back in 2005 did. Can we stop the "SE is making this game way too casual!" now, before it even starts? -- Alydra 20:28, 3 September 2008 (UTC) I haven't touched a EP or DC mob for the purpose of XP in almost a year. I don't see this as a big impact on the 75'ers. Except that potentially this would increase the limit points for killing EP and DC mobs as well wouldn't it? I'd be praising SE for getting merits faster when you wanted to solo/farm. I'm going to go back to partying in 6 mans now vs T's and higher though.--Nuala Phoenix :What I'd really love to see SE add is Technical XP for doing stuff like Skill Chains and MB's. --Nuala Phoenix ::AMEN!--Gorbyofodin 03:37, 5 September 2008 (UTC) I also don't think there is going to be a massive increase in the exp you gain per EP/DC. One positive thing I can see from this is that players will probably go out killing these mobs solo while waiting for a party more often, rather than hanging out in Jeuno/Whitegate for hours without so much as a /tell. Lawii Quetzalcoatl 09:02, 4 September 2008 (UTC) : Yeah...I'm sure this won't make solo more viable than party, just make solo more viable period. It won't replace seeking a party for xp/hour, but it will give people more things to do while they seek. - Hiachi 05:27, 5 September 2008 (UTC) This Version update has Changed FFXI forever.. This Isn't your Log on for an hour Game and everyone knows it. S.E needs to Realize that all their doing is making the game WoW.. Yeah Hurray for the level sync creates more statics and such but giving more EXP for EP and DC mobs way to make the game too easy. whats next Hundred fists becomes a 20min cooldown? Chainspell can be meritted to last an hour?? I'm all about helping new players and making things abit easier for them but what about the Players that have had 5+ years Experience in the game?? if S.E wants to keep players Make HNM's ??? popable they not only made it easier for some n00b to get 75 but hurray who wants to EXP with RMT? anyone? seriously Square what is going through your minds --Phoenix-- : Like it or not, Square-Enix does have customers that only play 2-3 hours a day, or less, and they pay just as much for their characters as you do. This new addition doesn't hurt anyone that plays all day long, but it does help the other part of the fanbase that doesn't play constantly each day. - Hiachi 05:27, 5 September 2008 (UTC) LOL this isn't making FFXI any easier it's just making it fairer to the solo commuitty out there i mean how many pple out there can get 25-30k limit points an hour solo none and if you do solo it's a greater risk to your self and at best you'd get 10k an hour but more likly 3-6k an hour even less if ya die bringing this exp gain closer to the exp potential of a party is a good move imo i don't think the new exp will exceed the speed of exp in a party but at least we have more than one option of exping making FFXI more fun as for pple saying FFXI should be the same because pple will leave otherwise lol i'm sorry but if FFXI was like it was 4 years ago when i started i would of left so would of alot of other pple anyhow FFXI is changing because it has to compete with WoW it's not really getting much easier it's just adding more ways to play the game you can still make a RDM DD x 5 party and get 10 merits in a day and hopefully soon you can spend a few hours a day over the week campaigning and soloing to ghet those merits so that your weekend is free to do more fun stuff. Also if we lose players from this (which i doubt very much) just remeber without attraching new players FFXI will lose it's money slowly which will mean less new conetent followed by no new content to closing down of the servers because of this i think this is a Smart move by Square Enix --Rezeak 15:59, 4 September 2008 (UTC) Let me first say i think this a step in the wrong direction. The problem with the hot beds of the past two discussions on the upcoming updates, really aren't the ease of FFXI; its the potential harm and evident death of the game we all have come to know and love. As already discussed Lvl-Sync will re-open the doors on statics, however in doing so it closes more (not all) of the doors on pick-ups etc. These were the basis of the game for years, it forced you to have to meet new ppl as in earlier versions Soloing by a great many of jobs was a fruitless endeavor. As is easily noticeable in these discussion pages, the game's player base has gotten overly hostile, as continued changes in this matter no longer has to have players affront the luxury of being "Nice." There is no longer any recourse for being the servers biggest jack-ass. You can go campaign, death total exp loss is allot lower than 5 yrs ago, also "Current" "Soloable" areas "With" "no" "exp loss" exist in the past (See: Ladybug Camp), also Fellows help players already solo >.>. So please explain the point of further dumbing down the game? There really is none other than an attempt to try and mimic a more successful MMORPG (See: WoW). The problem again and again SE is not getting is that WoW spends more annually on Advertising than SE... in the 5+ years of game play i have seen only 4 advertisements for FFXI outside of POL, and one of them was in Japanese and not even for FFXI but for there JP Onry Promo Drink "Potion". Come on SE pull your head from your arse and see daylight. Now to address more so the remainder of support within this argument. Will it make FFXI easier? If you say no, you probly should go have your self declared legally blind. Any time there is a change towards getting MORE EXP for anything within an RPG the game becomes easier. While it will still take time to achieve lvl goals, YOU WILL STILL SAVE TIME, and a savings in time is always attributable to EASIER. Lets step back a bit to further convey this idea. Go back a few years when EXP loss was reduced to a maximum cap. Now when i started playing EXP loss was a flat 10% so that means at 75 with 42k exp you lost 4.2k exp per death, when this was reduced to under 3k @ or past 60, you would spend less time recovering from prior deaths, hence EASIER. As for the Maat's cap ya, it will be more attainable by players, since a vast majority of ppl i know who have gotten it had to solo at some point in order to attain it. Something else to consider, as a game becomes widely more accessible to a greater number of players (Also Read: EASIER) the average skill lvl, player ability, and Intelligence will go down. When SE finally decides it wants to take the plunge into WoW Clones, be prepared to see teh cluttered interface typical to wow, because the general (Please note i said general, not all) player base that game is designed to captivate, does not understand how to write Code (Ergo: macros), Additionally there is a very good reason why PC in WoW regen MP and HP and a retarded rate. Also why would "Tool tips" be required if your trying to market towards that upper fringe of Gamers? Really all i have to do is point at AV and Warden to prove my point. "What I'd really love to see SE add is Technical XP for doing stuff like Skill Chains and MB's. --Nuala Phoenix" Exactly!!! This is what we need. Rewards for doing things other than inviting mass amounts of DD's and spamming Multihit WS's. Also rather than added exp for mobs EP and DC why not increase the Chain duration in pt with members below 70? There are many other solutions that would be better than making more mobs soloable for more exp... Finally if you are using the crutch "It's better than waiting around for hours to pt," Seriously stop being a lazy ass and start your own pt up rather than sitting around twiddling your thumbs, there seriously aren't enough go getters ne more. Also there do exist was of getting exp outside of pts >.>, EXP pages, ENMs Campaign etc. you don't need to solo ><. Milotheshort 17:23, 4 September 2008 (UTC) Personally, this update doesn't effect me much. No matter how awesome your job is at solo, this still won't beat getting a party. Not even campaign can beat it. So, whoever thinks this'll dumb the game down, test it. Get a friend together and race from 1-75, while you only solo and the other parties.. SE will never let the game be "solo to 75 in a month" lolWoW. FirstPrime 3:20, 4 September 2008 (CST) New Weapon Skills Ugh. Now I gotta do Nyzul Isle if I want to get these new weapons skills. SE sure knows how to limit who can get these. Shentok 17:03, 3 September 2008 (UTC) Stop and think this one through, okay? You Guys arn't Getting Why The Veterans are so angry it's not just the fact its making the game EASIER! it's the problem of now having more n00bs to deal with. the reason this game is so successful is because the People who arn't committed to the game won't seek for PT's the Won't Start Their own they whine and bitch and go back to WoW where omfgbbqsauce u can solo? MMORPG. The people who don't make it Quit. honestly How many Players out there still stop @ say 72 if ur Samurai w/o Hagun? how many of the MNK's these days go out for Brown belt? Meripo PT Average will drop from 25k/hr to like 19k think of it like a dunes PT 1 like most you've got atleast 2-3 decent players the rest are retarded. I'm all for making the Game more solo. but honestly, I thought S.E was actually making a stand on all those MMO's where u really dont have to interact w/ other players to get to high level (WoW srsly?) I love the Fact that U HAVE to party to get anything done in this game. --|Xensai|phoenix|-- :I've hated this attitude since I started playing this game. "I've been here forever, so I'm vested, this game owes me something for the thousands of hours I've thrown into it." Square is trying to make things more universally appealing, and the main bitch isn't about the game being easier, but short changing how much you "suffered" getting to where you are without these adjustments. Sounds like the chief problem is ego, not function. Your in game accomplishments are now more easily accomplished. But frankly leveling has always been a no brainer, so I don't see how this changes anything regarding a challenge, just gives a yet unknown oomph that wasn't there before. All of the "hard" stuff in the game hasn't been changed, their is nothing hard about waiting around with a flag up waiting for party for hours, their is nothing hard about soloing EP's for negligible exp, it just sucks. So the arguement is, "it sucked for us, so it should suck for you too." Lighten up, it's a game. When the power goes out, the world goes away. This is hardly a "big deal" and could make things more enjoyable for the bulk of the community who isn't sporting Maat's cap and working on their last lv 75.--DarkTrance 15:07, 5 September 2008 (UTC) :And precisely how are there not "n00bs", as you put it, at high levels already? Precisely how does this update discourage partying (so far all I've heard are new ways to party)? And how exactly is it that, even if this game does make slow soloing a possibility, that it will somehow magically morph into World of Warcraft? :I find your negative use of the word retarded, the term "n00bs", and the flagrant disregard for spelling offensive. By your rationale, I have as much right to demand you not turn this game into AOL as you do to demand it not turn into WoW. --Taeria Saethori 21:39, 4 September 2008 (UTC) I like that SE is making the EP and DC monsters offer up a little more EXP when killed; and for those nay-sayers who think it will break the game or something lame like that, the EXP given will probably jump just a little bit. Maybe x2 or something, which doesn't equate out to a whole lot if you're killing monsters for 40 EXP a kill. FFXI won't break, people won't speed their way to 75 while the "Veteran" users had to slave their way, it just means that people who have a job or are a full-time student (or both, like me) are able to get on for a little bit and level on their own, without having to put the time into waiting for an EXP PT. Seriously; I understand that "hardcore" players are gonna freak out over this, but you guys need to get this: not everyone in the world has all day to themselves to play this game, and they can't put in the effort you can into leveling up. This is an awesome decision from SE. They can keep the hardcore gamers, because leveling in a standard PT of 6 people will, more then likely, still be better then soloing, and get to keep the more casual gamers, since they can still do stuff in game and not have to worry about putting off anything in real life. Now... as for the requirements for the new Weapon Skills, I'm a little indifferent. I still have 0 of the prerequisites for the Mythic Weapon quests done, so it's not like it affects me much. Still, if you are already at Floor 100, have your Weapon, and are already on "Duties, Tasks, and Deeds", you're in better shape then everyone else still. I like how everyone now gets their disk saved with the completed floor, now, because that will make Nysul Isle runs a lot nicer for our static, as we don't have to rely on a single person to get to the floor we need. Having the weapons able to drop on the other floors (I'm gonna assume every floor that drops an armor piece) is nice as well. Sure, you still need Floor 100 to get the Mythic Weapon, but you don't need Floor 100 if you just want the Weapon Skill, which is probably all I'm gonna get from this for a good long while. (My luck in getting a Mythic Weapon, or more then one, may change once I actually get another job to 75 besides WHM; working on DRG right now.) --Nahara 18:03, 3 September 2008 (UTC) This is turning out to be a most excellent update. I play the game casually compared as to when I first started so the Level Sync and higher EXP for EP and DC monsters is excellent news. Kindress 19:05, 3 September 2008 (UTC) Excellent news for us casual players who end up paying the game and not playing it. no more 2 hours to wait for a party and log off 30 mins after cause you got to go to work/college/real life. As far as "hardcore" players who think this is a bad update: less QQ more RL savvy? :) -- SenseiSin 19:25, 3 September 2008 (UTC) I love these updates. But it's very... bothersome to see that there seems to be a resistance to these changes. From insulting the players welcoming these changes to Square-Enix themselves, many people seem to have a very hostile reaction to what is meant to be better for the game as a whole. If you're afraid these changes will somehow negatively affect you, you're not SE's target audience. --Taeria Saethori 22:53, 3 September 2008 (UTC) SE never intended for us to fight ITs all day for exp, and I think this is a reflection of that. EPs and DCs in parties gave pathetic exp. Now, maybe it'll be more apparent parties should focus more on dc-vt vs vt-it. Furthermore, I'm think the ep-dc thing is also to promote the smaller party groups which SE has been promoting for a while now. --Avanent 00:03, 4 September 2008 (UTC) I can't understand all this rage over what will probably turn out to be a very minor tweak. Do you really think SE is going to do anything that will drastically change a system that has been working for years? Do the math. I get 200exp for killing a Tough, but only 30 for killing an Easy Prey while soloing. Granted, after killing that single Tough I had to rest for a couple minutes, but for the EP's I could take down 3 or 4 before taking the same damage. That's 200 exp vs 120 (30*4) exp for roughly the same amount of damage taken by me. It took a LOT longer to take down 4 EP's than 1 Tough because I had to run around looking for targets. So is it really fair that I got less than half the experience? Now, say SE gives me a 50% increase (it'll probably be lower). I'd have received 180 instead of 120, but I'd still be better off fighting the Toughs for 200, and I'd do it in half the time. If anything, this adjustment is just closing that gap. If some players don't want to take the risk of getting killed for taking on the Toughs, are they less capable at their jobs because they chose easier targets? I dare say they are BETTER, because they had to kill four times as many mobs to get there. That's four times the opportunity to learn how to kill mobs more efficiently. And I'm sorry--probably no one will admit it, but I'm sure we've all been surprised by an EP mob and actually been KO'd at least once. There are other reasons this tweak is a good thing: What if you're a WHM and you want to skill up your staff skill because you just hit 51 and have these awesome elemental staves at your disposal? You probably can't take down an EM mob at level 51 without help, and I don't know many parties at that level that will tolerate a WHM who dares to use his weapon. This tweak makes it easier for the WHM to get a little experience for the effort. It in no way makes him any less capable at his job. --Gorbyofodin 03:28, 5 September 2008 (UTC) Just consider this... money. Most hardcore gamers wont leave due of this because they are addicted(like me), but this can bring in alot of new gamers and keep them longer. More players means more money for SE, and money is why they made the game in the first place. Klutzz 19:45, 5 September 2008 (UTC) :I can't believe how worked up people are getting about this. Yes, making EP and DC mobs give more exp WILL make it easier. But seriously, everyone's gonna have a Maat's Cap? You're all idiots! Yes, people that have Maat's cap now have had to solo while waiting for a party, can you seriously tell me you've never had to wait for a party? Level sync will help people get and make parties, and the ep/dc mobs will help them get a bit of exp in the process. This does NOT mean that every idiot that doesn't know which is the pointy end of a sword is going to hit 75 overnight people! So what if it makes things easier? Okay, so maybe you have all jobs to 75 already and you think everyone else should have to do it as hard as you did, does that mean you never help people with anything? What about the guys that were playing the game when the level cap was 50? Does that mean that everyone that goes and kills Roc and Sim should do it on level 50 jobs? Change is not a bad thing guys, I have a few people in my LS that are about to get some serious help through CoP because of level sync, now these guys are really good players, the only reason they haven't done CoP already is because A: they don't play all the time and B: people hate helping with level cap events. FFXI is a lot different now than when it came first came out, and I'm not even going to attempt to list how many hundred's of things have changed, but hey, the game is still growing, maybe that means SE are actually doing something right? :Seriously, there are way too many elitist wankers in this game who seem to have forgotten that once upon a time they were a level 1 noob who used to think crawlers were the nastiest things alive. If really think that the game is too easy for new people now, then feel free to just stay in your elitist end-game LS and don't invite them, as long as they know how to do their job they'll always be welcome in my shell. (and seriously, I know a lot of level 75's that got there the hard way that still suck) And if that's not enough for you, feel free to quit the game, one less elitist wanker is a good thing in my book. --Blazza 04:56, 6 September 2008 (UTC) :Gah, always forget to sign -_- Nyzul Party Progress :With the new version update, floor data will be recorded and updated for all players, not only those who directly operate the Rune of Transfer. :For their progress data to be updated, players must begin the mission on a floor equal to or lesser than the maximum level currently recorded :on their disc. Provided this condition is met, progress data will automatically be updated each time a previously uncharted level is completed. So, if I currently have 1-10 floors completed, and my group decides to do 46-55 for someone else, does this mean I have floors 46-55 charted? Or shall we wait and see? --Fiye 19:15, 3 September 2008 (UTC) My assumption is yes, you will. The very awesome, practical upshot of this is, aside from getting everyone in the group a Runic Key quickly, is that if one person runs out of Nyzul Tokens, someone else in the group can easily use his points to pick up where the group left off. --Nahara 20:27, 3 September 2008 (UTC) For their progress data to be updated, players must begin the mission on a floor equal to or lesser than the maximum level currently recorded on their disc. Provided this condition is met, progress data will automatically be updated each time a previously uncharted level is completed. You have to have UP to the level you are attempting for it to record on your disk, meaning you would have to be at level 45 for the 46+ information to be recorded. -- 20:40, 3 September 2008 (UTC) :Thanks Attila, that makes a lot more sense. Clear as normal, with the entire group getting credit. --Fiye 15:34, 4 September 2008 (UTC) Read it wrong. My bad. >< --Nahara 21:03, 3 September 2008 (UTC) :I have a feeling tokens don't get upped unless you are operating the rune. But at least you don't have to worry about your disc holder leaving your group =P Say you go from 1-20 with a static, static dissolves, you pick up at 21 with a new group. But let's say you weren't the main disc holder, you have no tokens to use on floors 21+, but you can go back to 1 and earn your tokens while getting the rest up to floor 21 too =D --Vafruvant 05:31, 4 September 2008 (UTC) :Everyone gets tokens as long as the group leaves via the glowing lamp. So even if your static breaks, you should have tokens to keep going if you make another static. --Kudos 19:21, 4 September 2008 (UTC) ::Tokens work exactly the same way as assault points for the other 5 zones work. The only difference is what you spend them on, which is temporary items and used to enter higher floors instead of buying gear with them. I don't even have a runic disk and I have over 50k tokens. ::And hey, the changes mean that we can spend more time getting nyzul gear instead of climbing from 0-100 12 times to get everyone their weapon and runic key (my whole static is going for mythic), I like the sound of that! --Blazza 04:36, 6 September 2008 (UTC)